Why Storytelling is the Most Powerful Leadership Skill
Pat Wadors, Chief People Officer at Intuitive, discusses how storytelling can drive empathy and foster connection within teams. She shares lessons from her book Unlock Your Leadership Story, exploring fables as tools for leadership growth and personal development. Pat emphasizes the value of personal scorecards in aligning career choices with personal values and the importance of asking questions to unlock team potential.
In today's episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, we welcome Pat Wadors, CHRO at Intuitive. Pat shares insights from her new book Unlock Your Leadership Story, where she explores using fables and folk tales to unlock leadership potential and motivate teams.
She discusses the power of storytelling in driving connection, belonging, and engagement within organizations.
🎓 In this episode, Pat discusses:
How storytelling fosters empathy and connection.
Career lessons from fables like Goldilocks.
Using a personal scorecard to align values with career choices.
The value of "argue like you're right, listen like you're wrong" in leadership.
Greenhouse delivers a 589% hiring ROI
IDC calculated the business value of hiring with Greenhouse, proving we’re not just another hiring tool: We’re a strategic partner that helps customers maximize their hiring efforts.
In this IDC White Paper, The Business Value of Greenhouse, IDC examines the specific impact Greenhouse has on our customers’ hiring processes, digging into measurable results. According to the IDC study, organizations using Greenhouse achieved:
- Average annual benefits worth $6.65 million
- 589% 3-year ROI with a 7-month payback on investment
- 36% more efficient recruiting teams
- 56% more DEI initiatives met
Complete IDC’s hiring assessment and get a personalized, data-backed report detailing your potential business value with Greenhouse.
Pat Wadors 0:00
So when you tell a story from beginning, middle and end, it releases chemicals in our brains. Me as an audience, and I start putting myself in your shoes. It's like, don't go in the woods. There's bad things in the woods. All of a sudden, you're telling the story about the Red Riding Hood. And I'm like, I'm her, and I'm like, I don't want to go in the woods, like, I don't want to wear that red cape. I like, I'm worried about grandma. What do I do? And so you get this compassion element. I feel connected to you. I lean into the conversation, and I find a commonality with you. So we're we get bonded through stories, through chemicals in our brains. And the more personal it is, the tighter the relationship.
Chris Rainey 0:50
Pat, welcome back to the show. How are you?
Pat Wadors 0:52
I am doing awesome. Thank you.
Chris Rainey 0:55
I can't believe it's been like six, nearly seven years since we've did our last episode, how crazy is that time flies?
Pat Wadors 1:05
Oh, my that long. Oh, my goodness, I
Chris Rainey 1:07
know it's crazy, right? Like, and I think you've been in a couple different roles since then, and then maybe it's only fitting that I catch you on your one of your first days in the new role. So maybe let's start there. And so before we get there, tell everyone a little bit more about you personally, because I read that. Think that informs, sort of your background, especially the journey in your book we're going to talk about, and then the role that you're in now. So give everyone a bit of background, and then we
Pat Wadors 1:34
can jump in. So as you know, I geek out on all things talent, and so I have the privilege of being the head of HR, the peak team at intuitive they used to be referred to as Intuitive Surgical you might have heard of them, but for me, it's all about serving the employees and having a platform to drive healthy companies. I'm super excited about this gig because it gets me in the Bay Area in California. As you know, I have a couple of kids in the Bay Area, and now two grandchildren, and so I actually have an apartment probably a mile away from all of them. So I'm close enough not to be called a stalker ish mom, but close enough to be a great grandma. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 2:20
yeah. What is the good distance for that? Because if you're like, like, down the street on the road, it's about, okay,
Pat Wadors 2:28
so how to, like, weigh my options, like, how close is too close?
Chris Rainey 2:32
Yeah, you made a mistake there. You know? Because what's going to happen now, which is what me and Tasha do with our daughter, Robin. You're close enough that they can give you the last minute calls for babysitting. So now you have to prepare yourself for, hey, we're just thinking about going here. Do you mind taking the grandkids? So you got so you say, Yay now, and they're going to be asking loads. And AI, okay, well, that's amazing. So for context for everyone, I think a lot of your previous roles as CHRO CPO has taken you all over the world, but in many cases that were quite a lot of travel, right? Yes, so it's nice now, at this point in your life, with the grandkids and everything, to have some quality time.
Pat Wadors 3:10
Absolutely, the prior gig at UKG was wonderful, talent space, talent technology, they're amazing, but they're primarily based on the East Coast. I'm a West Coast family based person, and so coastal travel, if anyone's done it, is really hard. I I would track myself like 10 hours door to door just for normal commute week. Wow. And then you add in international travel and time away from the fam, bam. It takes a toll, and I want to be there in those moments, like, Hey, I'm going to drop off Everly, and so I can go even to Safeway or grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine or something. I want to, I want that to happen. Amazing.
Chris Rainey 3:48
Now, Sue, I'm so happy for you. That's amazing that you just definitely, definitely after the crew. Obviously, I know you're retiring, but I mean, at this point, you want to make sure you spend the those those those years go by so quickly. So you want to be present for them. Like everyone said that to me with Robin, and now she's already six, and I'm just like, wow. Like, she's growing up so fast. My
Pat Wadors 4:09
grandson's six months old. Like he's rolling around. Like I like, he's like, so mobile. And I'm like, wait till he crawls, then he's gonna walk. And I don't want to miss any of that. Yeah, you have
Chris Rainey 4:20
an interest in story and journey as well, because all of the companies, or most of the companies you work with, have served both sides. So Dev, you know, you started at LinkedIn, I think it was service now, then UK, G van now, but So those three companies you they are both providing solutions to HR executives, and then you were also living on the inside of those. How interesting was that? What some of the lessons that you learned from working in those environments or those years?
Pat Wadors 4:51
I think I cut my teeth at LinkedIn on that, yeah, Chris, because what I realized early was everyone, and I remember being. At an off site, everyone had an opinion about talent, like how to coach or mentor or performance manager or comp, like everyone was an expert around me. And I'm like, This is so odd. I've never been an organization that every leader, every manager, thought they were the expert. And so we had a conversation, and we I'm like, Look, you're not. We got a line on the philosophy. And so as one company, I like my analogies, touch the elephant. And so, like, if we have, if we are one company, we're the elephant. Like, what, what are we creating together? Like, you can't have a separate performance management philosophy over here, here and here. Like we had, if there were 10 leaders, we had six different review processes and five different comp philosophies. And so our My job was to corral all of that passion into a shared vision, and then that shared vision created opportunity to share that with our customers. And then I fell in love with the customers because I got to help solve employee challenges and talent brand challenges, and I got to meet so many incredible people. And as an introvert, it forced me out of my shell and meet people from Europe and Asia and all over the place and companies and finance and fashion. It was just wild. And so I just that's been a passion. It's been fun.
Chris Rainey 6:23
It's cool, right? Because you get, like, this ripple effect where you have the impact that you're making for your employees that you serve, but then now for your customers and partners, there's another ripple effect of impact that you're having you broaden that, which I'm sure is very exciting, to be able to have that. And it's interesting, you mentioned you're an introvert, because that was something we discussed in our first ever episode. Because I remember you telling me that LinkedIn asked you to start doing some speaking and presenting. And remember you told me how overwhelmed, if I remember this correctly, sorry if I'm making this up. It was so long ago that you're like all of a sudden, and because you were one of the first public facing, public speaking leaders that I came across in the HR space, and that was something that I think you said the founders approached you about and said, Hey, we want you out there. And so I think, is it a misconception that people, people shock when they hear that you're an introvert? Is that something? Because, yes, I had an
Pat Wadors 7:18
argument with Jeff Weiner. He was the CEO at LinkedIn. And I'm like, I feel like he was like, I need you to be like, my business partner. I need to run HR for LinkedIn, and then I need to be this ex, external facing, speaking, engaging person, like, no, like no. And then he's like, What do you mean no? And I'm like, I could do the first two really well, but not that third thing that's like, a unicorn, I'm a horse. I do those first two things. And so he's like, No, you're gonna do that third thing. And I'm like, I'm an introvert. I can't and he goes, You're not an introvert. You're lying. And I said, I'm not lying. I like, I know where I get my energy Jeff. And he was like, now you, you show up in a room and you you can talk, and I'm like, I know I can talk, but it's, it takes a lot of energy, and so I had to express where I get my energy from and how I process. And he used to have us in staff meetings do brainstorming. And if anyone's listening, is an introvert, you know how much we love Yeah,
Chris Rainey 8:21
environment, yeah. Love it.
Pat Wadors 8:25
So I would be like, Jeff, would go, like, waters, what do you think? And I'm like, I can't I need time to process use waters. Tell me what you think. And I'm like, All right, I'm gonna give you a scale from one to 10. I'm thinking this as a six level. If I get more information, I might get up to an eight level and give you more information that's so I started gaging how how much information I process to get around that brainstorm
Chris Rainey 8:48
problem. Back then, it was quite uncommon, though, for HR executives to be front facing. Now it's common practice, and many companies are really asking their people leaders to be out there. Why is that important? Do you think?
Pat Wadors 9:03
Well, it unlocks the talent brand, right? It's there's a source of truth, and there's a vision that you put out there and a strategy you put out there, and you got to walk the talk. And so for me, it's like I looked at our LinkedIn profiles at every company and say, How are my employees representing the company? What are they saying? How do they feel? What gets them excited? I look at survey data and sentiment and look at the employee experience. And if the head of HR is out there, you know, with values and principles in the statement and a mission, it's easier to figure out, do I belong there? Will I have an impact? There is this something I want to, you know, believe in and trust as as an employee. It helps. Yeah, it just helps. And so, if you're a trusted HR leader, then the the talent in your area, like I, you know, I know so and so and, you know, JP, Morgan Chase, or Nordstrom or Starbucks, you know, the. Arm, you know, the culture they're building. You get this the ecosystem. And I think it just helps with recruiting. It helps with retention. It helps with succession planning. Yeah, the board engagement just helps.
Chris Rainey 10:10
Yeah. I had one of the CHROs join me from DHL recently, and she called me and said, You never guess what Chris and I said, what she's like after our episode. We just hired our new cmo because she heard our episode, and she said, that's the kind of company I want to work for. And I thought that was so cool. I like it, you know. Like, I was like, wow. Like, that's to your exact point. And we had, we was talking around well being and around dei on the episode, and that person just happened to be looking at a new role, and they came across it on LinkedIn, and was like, that's the kind of place I want to work. That's the kind of leader I want to work with. So to give people the idea, like, who listening? That's a practical example, and I hear that a lot, but listen, I want to jump into your new book. When I saw this pop up on LinkedIn, I was like, it's about time, and I'll check it. I'll check it. So unlock your leadership story, how to build understanding and motivate teams using fables and folk tales. Start from the beginning, you know, what was the inspiration behind the book? Did you plan on even writing one? You know? Because sometimes this, these things can just happen. Talk us through it, and then we'll jump in more.
Pat Wadors 11:20
All right, so I never planned on it. I was I've been asked a couple of times to co write books with some peers, and I write the way I talk. So if any of y'all have seen my writing on LinkedIn, I the way I talk is the way I write. And a lot of communications or marketing people try to edit my voice to make it proper when you write. And I'm like, I don't speak like that, so I needed to be authentically me, and so if I was going to co write with somebody, I always felt awkward. And being an operator, I didn't know where I'd find the time to write a book, and I didn't have, like, all all these constraints I put in front of myself. Chris, can't, can't, can't, can't. And then last year, Wiley Publishing approached me in August and said, Hey, would you like to write a book? And I actually laughed. And I
Chris Rainey 12:08
can imagine your action. You're like me. I ain't got time. What do you mean? What would I talk about
Pat Wadors 12:13
exactly all those things? And I sitting on top of all that. I'm a dyslexic, so, you know, I could just imagine being nervous, transposing all my letters and writing terribly, and so,
Chris Rainey 12:24
by the way, so I know exactly how you feel when that's where I lean on Shane, my co founder, he sits there and helps me out with a lot of that stuff, contracts and writing stuff off, because it's super stress. It takes time and energy to your point back that you mentioned earlier. Like I'm drained so much. And he's like, Oh, this is easy. Like, cool. Go on. Carry on. Sorry, that's okay.
Pat Wadors 12:48
But so you get it, you get it. So she like, Lee was on the phone, and she's like, well, you write a book about HR. And I'm like, No, I can't. And she's like, What do you mean? You can't? I said, Well, I won't. I'll change my word. I won't. The reason why I won't is there's a lot of amazing practitioners out there that probably have better stories. I know they do better tools, like there's such a wealth of information already out there. Go, there, right? Go, go, listen and learn. And if you want to learn from me on this certain process, I have an open door. I've shared everything. I'm so transparent. I don't think a book will help that move that needle forward. So no, thank you. And she goes, All right, if you were to write a book, what would you write about? Anything you want to write about? What would you write about? I'm like, wow, exactly. And I'm like, no one's ever asked me that
Chris Rainey 13:38
good job on them. Good job, by the way, status, take a second good job on them for good job on them for not being all right, no worries. All the best. They took the time to ask that question. Imagine how many missed opportunities or moments that we don't ask questions like that. If you if, if you could, what would that be? Remove all of the all of the restraints, all of it. What would that be? We should ask that question too more often. Sorry, I think that's an important moment. Yeah, go on.
Pat Wadors 14:05
Karen was for me, and it took me, quite honestly, almost six weeks, seven weeks, to think through and because if I was going to think of something, I had to write an outline, like the purpose of the book, and then the outline of how I think our story arc would go and submit that, and then a bunch of strangers, editors would, you know, managers would review my proposal and then say yay or nay. So now not only was I going to use my own voice, but now I'm going to, like, be judged. So there's, like, a lot of fear, yeah, and so the thing that came into my head was I teach and think in stories, I talk about touching the elephant, I talk about Goldilocks and the Three Bears and finding your just right fit. I've done it for decades. Chris, if I struggle with a philosophy or an approach, I anchor it against a fable or a folk tale, and I go, Look, don't be the Emperor with new clothes. You don't want. Be naked out there in the in work, you want to have you want to know what people are saying. You want to get feedback. You want to be able to give feedback. And so what does that mean? And so as soon as I use this anchor moment, light bulbs go off, and so I'm like, I'm going to write a book of leadership and personal stories to create your best version, anchoring against fables and folk tales, all the things I've been teaching about, and I'll pick my favorites and see what they think. And I tested out some of these fables with some peers of mine, some co workers I worked with a lot of years. And I'm like, what would you think of the three pigs? What do you think about the crow and the pebbles? What do you think about so and so? And how would you interpret them, or all that story today. It was a fabulous conversation. I'm like, this, is it? This is what I want to write about. Submitted it, and they're like, done. Like, when you want to get it done by I'm like, I don't know, I cock you in my head. A chapter a week, maybe I can't, you know, work on the weekends or on my plane flights. I got a lot of plane hours, so I get right on the plane, April 1. So I signed the contract Thanksgiving, end of November, and submitted it actually mid April. I extended it by two weeks, worried I wouldn't have enough time.
Chris Rainey 16:15
That's incredible, because tips and just for people listening, we've heard a lot of authors in the show. Sometimes they're working on these books for years, literally, and that's their full time gig to do that. So that's incredible. What I love about that is I'm also like you. I learned through stories and also through art. So when me and Shane wrote our vision for the business for the next couple of years, I drew a painting. I did a painting of that, and that painting represented our journey, because I connect with that so much more than if it was a bunch of bullet points on where we're going. And it's the same reason that stories and fables have withstood the test of time and have lasted hundreds, sometimes 1000s of years, because as human beings, that's exactly, you know. And I'm sure many of your peers can recite those from previous companies that you've worked in, and Pat would say x, and this is what that means, right? And it's also removes all the complicated, like you kind of distill it down to something that people can go, oh, okay, I get that as well. And then you can have a conversation around it more easily together as well. So I love the fact that you've it's tough as well, because there's so many leadership books and other things out there as well that you've created quite a unique lens on how you deliver it. Let's jump into some of your favorites, then some of your favorite stories from the book that we can share with listeners to give them a bit of a taste of what to expect. Okay,
Pat Wadors 17:40
so I'll start with probably three. One is the Goldilocks and the Three Bears. So Goldie came into my head when I was in college, trying to figure out my just right fit, what I liked, what I didn't like. So I'm like, I am like Goldilocks. But then she came to life when I was at Applied Materials, because I saw so many of my peers, especially women, that would be tapped on their shoulder to do another job, like they might be in manufacturing, like, Oh, you'd be really great material handling, or you'd be great over here in marketing or whatever. And I would see these, you know, older, mature leaders, going, how in the heck did I end up in marketing? I wanted to be in finance, or I wanted to be an analyst, and now I'm, I'm, like, writing stories, and I heard this so often, like, well, then how did you end up here? Like, well, so and so saw something in me, and they needed me to do this. They needed me. They needed me. And like, I want to lead my own career, like I get where you need me or want me, that's awesome. That means I built a superpower. But where do I want to grow and learn? And so I took coaching, and I took this call class called Managing your personal growth. And Goldilocks kept coming to my head. And so Goldie is really about not breaking and entering a cottage. I don't condone that, but I do condone every job that you take teaches you something, what you like and what you don't like. Because another frustrating thing is that, especially with you know, mother of millennials, they're like, find your passion. Like, pursue your passion, they don't know what they love, yet they haven't tasted,
Chris Rainey 19:20
Oh, I gotta use the exact word I use the message with you. Gotta taste as many things as possible. And then, you know, no one know. I didn't know I'd be doing this. He asked me, I'll be Christmas. My friends and family still don't understand what I do. Like, how have you ended up there? Well, I tasted loads of different things, and then I found the thing that really I enjoyed as well.
Pat Wadors 19:39
That's your Goldilocks, right? So you figured out you're just right fit by what you like and what you don't like. And same thing with leadership traits. You know, I learned more from a crappy manager than I did from great ones because I didn't know how they were great. Sometimes when something goes flawless, it makes me nervous. Chris, like, I don't know how that happened. I. But when something breaks and I have to deconstruct it and fix it, it gets more in my DNA. So good and bad are so important to learn from. So I love Goldie, and then I teach. I give you a framework of Goldilocks. Like, how to create your own Goldilocks spreadsheet. Like, know your values and your motivators, the lot of like, knowing what yourself is really important. We don't spend enough time doing that and codifying those experiences and our superpowers and things we want to learn. And how do we map our current gig to those elements? And I've coached so many people through the spreadsheet, Chris, and every time they're like, this is hard, and then when they get through like, this is so clarifying. It helps you when I interview. It helps me pick the next job. It helps me know when I'm going to apply to something. Gives me courage to raise my hand for that promo. So Goldilocks is my one of my favorites. The other one is touching the elephant. It's those it's the elephant and the blind men, where they come in and they're asked to touch an animal or a thing and describe it, and they describe it as a sail or a snake or a trunk of a tree or something else or a barrel, and they argue and argue because they can't see the whole elephant. And it wasn't until this one man starts asking questions. Well, why do you think it's a sail? Why do you think it's a snake? Why do you think it's a trunk? What do you feel? What do you sense? Can you feel further? And together, they learned that it's a bigger thing. And so I learned the value of questions seeking to understand, like, be confident what you're touching for sure, but then seek to understand and be humble that you might not have all the facts. And that service. Now this came to light because you had a lot of experienced leaders, and some new leaders coming in and very strong personalities, and we wanted to build a new team, and as a leadership tenant, we decided to own the statement called argue like you're right, listen Like you're wrong. Love that, so come to the table, Chris. Argue like you're right. Bring your data, bring your wisdom, your experience, your intuition, even I want to hear that too, but then sit back and ask questions. What did I miss? What would you do differently? Help me, you know, what did you like? Listen like you're wrong. Be humble enough to know you may not see the whole elephant. So that's one of my favorites.
Chris Rainey 22:22
I love that because there's a temptation, even if you know you're right or you have the information, that you just dismiss the other people, and then you kind of move forward, but you're missing a massive opportunity to understand their perspective, where they're coming from, and that you learn a lot about. Oh, so that's why you thought that, or that's you know, where you know, and a lot of times we like rushing through the process, or tempted just to be like, No, that's how we're doing it. And this I learned that with my team the hard way, as a leader, just to sort of, even if I have a perspective, just don't rush in and just listen and let everyone go through you learn so much, and they're also way more engaged in the future. To be open ideas to the table, be vulnerable to your point earlier. If you don't create that space, you're just missing a massive opportunity, almost taking away the opportunity for them to grow and develop and provide their if we talk about neuro neuro diversity, for example, to bring their eyes and thoughts to the tail to the table. I love that. That one's really cool. I never heard of that analogy before. That story, by the way. Oh, wow. So that's a new one for me. So you explained it really well. I didn't have any questions after you explained it. And I think that perfectly describes the current landscape we're in, especially HR leaders right now, it's so chaotic. There's so many different you know, you've got politics, you've got wars, you've got hybrid work, you've got all these like you can never, you can reach out and touch, right? But you never really know the full picture to your point. So you constantly got to be asking questions. I think that you got AI. There's so much. So that's a really great story to encapsulate the the the environment that we're in right now. But again, there's always going to be something new. There's always going to be another one that comes, always
Pat Wadors 24:12
something new. Yeah, stay humble. And so like, my teams will say, you know, one of my statements, my favorite things, is like a question is your best tool as leaders. A question is better than a statement. A question unlocks learning and engagement and trust. Like, just ask a question and be sincere, be willing to listen to the answers. So love the elephant, and then there is the tortoise and the hare. So I rewrite the story a little bit. I write the the fable so everyone understands what the fable is that they never heard it before. Okay, great, yeah, now give the moral of the lesson for my interpretation and for me. The tortoise. She's a she and she lives by her own scorecard. She just she knows she's slow, slower than the hair, but she doesn't care, because in her personal life, she loves to run, she loves to compete, she loves a challenge. And so those are her personal values, her score card, and so she decides to run this race, and the hare, you know, mimics her and makes fun of her, and she doesn't care. She just slow and steady, and she's like, I'm enjoying the race my way. And then when the hare falls asleep, because he's kind of cocky, she wins the race. And the analogy for me, the moral story is that she won her her She lived her score card. Every day she showed up and lived her score card. And that's so incredibly powerful. And so I talk about a personal score card, like, I want to wake up in the morning living my values. I believe in family first. I believe in being authentically me, like blah, blah, blah. And so did I live it, or did I not live it? That's super important.
Chris Rainey 26:03
At what point in your career did you come across that concept of having a personal score card? Because that might be an unfamiliar concept to some people listening.
Pat Wadors 26:14
Well, it didn't happen in my career. It happened personally first. So I had my values. So if you remember with Goldilocks, one of the tasks I set for myself is to understand my values and my motivators, and I put on my spreadsheet so I kind of knew what they were, and I made decisions thinking about them, but I didn't think of it as a score card until I really was challenged with my husband on a personal issue or trying to figure out how to care for his dad. His dad was ill, had cancer. We're trying to figure out what's the right thing to do. Do we take care of him? Who's the caretaker? You know? But we had young kids, there was a lot of complexity in there, and so, like, we'd have to change how we lived or do different things to support him, and what would the family and other members do? And one day, we're like, struggling with the decision, and we just looked at each other. I'm like, Well, what's our personal score card? Let's what are our values together? And it unlocked an amazing conversation. And so I'm like, here's my values. And so if I really believe these values, then the answer is kind of simple. We do X, Y and Z. And he goes, like, I agree. Let's let's stop the noise of whatever one, like everyone else does is up to them. What we do is our scorecard. I'm like, bingo. And then, you know, I've been pursuing that scorecard, and even today, like, if Dave and I are struggling with with the decision, he goes, What's our personal scorecard tell us to do? Yeah, like the decision to change jobs was a personal score card.
Chris Rainey 27:43
I love this so much, and I only came across this or me. And kind of me and Shane kind of described it as our sort of purpose mission statement, both per first, personally and professionally. And we kind of like look at it as our foundation of decision making. Because, like, let me give me a perfect example, during a pandemic, we the whole world was telling us, furlough your employees. Do this, do this, do this. And me and Shane kind of looked at that first through the lens of fear. What are we going to do? We're losing money. And they were like, how do we make decisions based on when there's so much uncertainty? And we made decisions based on those principles and our beliefs. So the can you, then you just remove the chaos, because there's always going to be more chaos. You remove all the noise. And we make decisions from that place. And we decided to keep everyone, reimagine the business, go digital, etc. And it was one of the best, best decisions we ever made, if we would have made a decision based on the media, the politics, the fear, everything else, we wouldn't be here right now. There would be no company. We would have went out of business 100% as well. And that's something that's been massive for us, personally and professionally. What I have done, haven't done as much to your point, which I think I'm going to do now, is have more of a deeper conversation around that with my wife. So me and Shane have that conversation a lot, but something you just that I've learned on this podcast, that I'm going to take away is, yes, we have conversations, but through the Lent not in the way through the lens that you're describing. I think that'd be really helpful for us, because we also struggle. My wife's building her own company. I'm doing this, obviously, HR leaders, we've got a six year old daughter. We've also got our parents as well. We were, you know, recently, Shane, my co founder, He was caring for his granddad, who's got dementia, that we had to work around some complexities around that. And if you don't have that scorecard or foundation to make decisions based on those things, it gets really tough, and you'll make it really you'll make it out of emotional fear. And that normally doesn't result well as well. And then some non negotiables, right? So now I have non negotiables based on those those conversations in my candidate so my EA knows don't book things during these times. I want to be present for Robin as a dad and turn up. Can be at the jiu jitsu matches, at a school plays, at the parent teacher conferences. And it doesn't matter how busy is, how, how you know the old that new sale, that new deal. It doesn't matter. It actually scorecard because whereas in the past, I'd been like, I'm too busy, I've got this email I need to send I've got this event coming up, and I only started doing that maybe like a year ago. Even I didn't take a holiday for six years. Pat, I know it's bad. I worked here all summer, and this was the first summer I took two weeks off. And it was just amazing to wake up with Robin and Natasha and be like, what are we going to do today as a family? And the quality time that I spent with her, I came back so much more energized, so much more enthusiastic. And even Shane said, like, who are you? Where's the way? Like? So, yes, it was a busy and we got the crazy amount of stuff going in September, but I took the time. I was outside really happy that we did that as well. So love that. Talk about the power of stories, we said at the beginning of the episode, but talk about the power of stories and how our brain works. Because I'm sure you went into the research on that
Pat Wadors 31:13
I did. So two things, I teed up the book before I even go into the fables. There's two things. One, I got that courage to talk for LinkedIn through and to write through two nudges that said, look, take your lessons and write about it. Share it to the world. And if you can help one person that that achieves your purpose, your your purpose because my purpose, and I write it on my LinkedIn profile, I share it with people, is to leave the world better than I found it to be kind and to give more than I get. So I found courage to write more and to speak more. And my grandmother, my mom's mom, we called her a nanny. She was so dynamic and so ahead of her time that she she created a lasting impression on me. She would tell a story, like, I am, like majority Irish, like 80 something percent Irish, and she would tell a story, and I'm the baby out of eight, and we'd all be captivated. And she would pause, and her arms would wave, and then she would like, land the plane, and she'd tell the moral of her story. And it just, I love a great story. And so I talk about nanny, and then I want to know why I was captivated by stories Nancy Drew and Disney and all and Netflix. Like, why do we all like binge watch? It's because our brains react. So when you tell a story from beginning, middle and end, kind of what you did with me, Chris just now, about your vacation, about the decisions during COVID with your company, it releases chemicals in our brains. Me as an audience, and I start putting myself in your shoes. It's like, don't go in the woods. There's bad things in the woods. All of a sudden you're telling the story about the Red Riding Hood. And I'm like, I'm her. And I'm like, I don't want to go in the woods. Like, I don't want to wear that red cape. I like, I'm worried about grandma. What do I do? And so you get this compassion element. I feel connected to you. I lean into the conversation, and I find a commonality with you. So we're we get bonded through stories, through chemicals in our brains, and the more personal it is, the tighter the relationship. Yeah, and so I did. I looked at all this research because it was a foundation when I was thinking about belonging back in in 2016 I realized that DNI was necessary, but not sufficient, like we have to belong and and stories unlock belonging faster than anything. And I'm like, Why is that true? And so I I just shared the research I learned on this. But a story is pretty magical.
Chris Rainey 34:02
It's unbelievable. And we we don't make space enough in our organizations for those conversations to happen, or in another way, don't, sometimes, don't create the psychological safety to have those conversations. And where that unlocked for me and Shane was we went to a leadership retreat. We got invited to by a guy called Nick Craig. He wrote a book, I think was leading with purpose, was the book. And as part of that, the first thing you do on day one, which I was like blown away by, is you do your crucible stories. So you're in a group of four people. You've never met them before, so I'm sitting there, and I was kind of put with, like an entrepreneurial group. I was pretty I'll be I'll be honest, I was like crazy imposter syndrome. Two of them were billionaires that was sitting next to So I'm sitting there like, I've just started my company. I'm still living in my spare room, like, doing this business as well, and all of a sudden, you're now sharing your crucible stories of some of the most. Challenging, difficult moments in your life, but the bond that I built with those people over that group, over the two days, I'm actually that was seven years ago, and I'm going to meet one of those people next in a few weeks in Miami, after our event. We've got in the in New York, in New Jersey, so I still can. So I'm so connected, because we bonded over that shared experience as well. And I never thought that, I'll be honest, I was walking into that thinking, Oh, we don't have time to go to this meeting. Shane, we've got a lot of work to do. We're really, really busy. And I came out of it with a completely and my purpose statement is to be the unbreakable artist that dances you to life, and there's a lot of there's a lot of meaning behind that. Unbreakable artist. I grew up as an artist, and unbreakable artist is kind of like my version of challenging the status quo, always trying to disrupt ourselves as HR leaders and remain competitive and innovative. So unbreakable artist is what that means. And in dances you to life. I used to be a dancer, as I mentioned to you before, and dances you to life. Is the analogy for helping grow and develop talent. My passion for growing and develop talent dances you to life. So I use those words because they mean a lot to me, and that I connect with those so that and yeah, so like, I completely get it and like those stories over those two days, which then in carved out our purpose statements. It was just game changer, absolute game changer. And Shane and I didn't realize when we had these, when we came together, he was in a different group. They put us in a different group when we came back. And Shane and I shared our stories with each other, bearing in mind, I've known strange as I was four years old. So you'd think, I know everything about him. I didn't. And I learned that half of the things that he was focusing on the business was draining him, taking away energy and vice versa, but all the things that were draining energy for him, I loved and vice versa for him. So all of a sudden we were like, what have we been doing for the last three years? And we completely re shifted our focus as co founders. And that next year we Forex our revenue because I was focusing on sales, marketing, creative, storytelling, things that really give me energy. And he was like, I love production, finance and operations. And I was like, I don't wanna do any of that. So do any of that stuff. That was well, but it was through our stories that that came out as well. So I wanted to share that with you. Story,
Pat Wadors 37:34
yeah, it's incredible. Yeah, you will. You're forever changed. That relationship is forever changed because of a story. So I hope, I hope, with the fables and folk tales, Chris, that you know, you'll learn some new ones like you did. You will figure out your own moral of the story. I give you tips and tricks, like tools to prompt yourself to do the work, and that the very last chapter, there's a workbook to craft your own story. Oh, amazing. Like, what are your What are your values and your motivators? Like I, you know, take a stab at your personal score cards. So you'll see my my score card in there. You'll see my Goldilocks in there. You'll see examples. And, you know, I want it to be something that puts you on a personal quest to be your best self. Wow,
Chris Rainey 38:20
it's Pat. I'm so excited for everyone to grab a copy of the book. I don't I think, no matter what role you are in organization or just in general, in life, this is so powerful for anyone, wherever they are, in their in their personal journey and career journey, to how I wish I kind of did something like that sooner, to really think about that. Because, as you said in the very beginning, sometimes it feels like works being done to us. You know, you Yes, go over here, just act on survey like, oh, I kind of just have to do it, because that's how this that's how the only way I can progress. That's not always the story. That's not always the case. And a lot of us learn that later in our career. You know, I learned that I kind of became empowered maybe 10 years into my career, to take charge of that and go actually, I'm not waiting, waiting for the tap on the shoulder or waiting for someone to develop me. I'm going to do it me. I'm going to do it myself. But I wish I kind of had a more foresight earlier in my career, like a resource like your book, to help me think about that a little bit differently, about how I do that, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Are you gonna make animated series? Pat, you need? Like, do you have like, artwork in there? Yes, oh, I forgot to mention that. Oh, I was like, You can't not have artwork in
Pat Wadors 39:37
artwork. So you and I both are artists. Yeah, a lot of Dyslexics are
Chris Rainey 39:42
That's true. That's true. Yeah, yeah. But
Pat Wadors 39:45
the one so on my Goldilocks journey, I worked at a company called Plantronics, and I got to meet a gentleman named Darren Katz. And Darren was that chief designer for Plantronics headsets. He was the head designer of. MW motorcycles and Indian motorcycles. Like the guy is legit, designer, creator. He's also dyslexic and just an amazing human being. And when we work together, he would do these daily doodles and draw pen and ink drawings. You do these amazing sketches. One of my goodbye gifts from him was this self, you know, a portrait of me with all these statements that people would say describing me. It was really cute. And one day, like he was doing a whole year, every day, daily doodle, and he would post it, these amazing pen and ink drawings. And when I envision this book, I wanted to reimagine the visual of the more of the fable of the folk tale. And so I called Darren up. I said, Darren, I would love it if you were the illustrator for my book. Wow. And I just went simple, pen and ink. I want you to read my story, my take of the, you know, the tortoise and the hair the crow and the picture the elephant, and I want you to draw for me and make these fables come to life through a picture and illustration. And he did. They were so good that the publisher Wale goes, can he draw a few more drawings like your Prolog about storytelling and the power storytelling. Can you draw a picture of something there? So he drew a portrait of me, because I always wear my sneakers and my dresses as the storyteller, have a book, and there's like people around me, and it is so cool. And then I the acknowledgements in the back. I made him do a self portrait. So there's three folks that helped me with the book, because it was just, I've never done it before. And so I had Darren, I had this woman named Brynn help me in MAV. And so I said, here's their photos. Can you draw a caricature? So the three of them together right, right above the acknowledgement. So Darren is super special. He's the illustrator of the book. I hope you love the pictures.
Chris Rainey 41:59
I'm so excited about that, because that's, again, how I connect as well. So I can't wait to see those. Have you posted any of those doodles on LinkedIn?
Pat Wadors 42:09
Not yet? Do one? I know. I know. So I do one soon, because I'm going to talk about the scorecard, the personal score card, and announce my transition into a new gig and and show you the tortoise and the hair picture that he drew. And so I'm going to start doing like, these mini series drawings. Oh, this
Chris Rainey 42:27
year, I was thinking about it while you're saying, I was like, please tell me that's part of Len and then link that back to the book as well. Oh, honestly, I'm so excited for you. Oh, we, like, spoke so long ago, and you really supported for us when me and Shane first started the company, and it means we more so much joy to see you like living your purpose and bringing this to life, even though you never planned on it. Sometimes that those are the things that when you sort of seek discomfort and put yourself out there, this is magic. It doesn't feel like that at a time, but it can be magical. So for everyone listening the books. So is it pre orders right now? Pat, or is it out the orders now? Pre orders now.
Pat Wadors 43:07
You can get it on october 29 you can order it on Barnes and Noble or Amazon. You can look on my LinkedIn profile and get the links. Or waters.com have a website now. Oh,
Chris Rainey 43:18
look at you. I look at you, did you say you got waters.com? Yes, that's cool. Sorry, that's really random. But, like, that's like a bit of a flex, right there, right there, because I Yeah. Okay. Anyways, just getting off topic. So for everyone, listening, wherever you're listening, watching, however you're consuming the content. Right now, the links below to grab a copy in the book. They'll always be there below. Also, make sure you go and follow pat on LinkedIn. There'll be a link to a LinkedIn profile there, because obviously you're going to be sharing some of those mini series and the doodles and stuff. So I'm looking forward to to seeing seeing those. And if you haven't already done so Pat, make sure you do that as part of your newsletter, a LinkedIn newsletter, because then people can subscribe to it and then get weekly updates, or whenever you release a new LinkedIn newsletter, it'll be great to just bit of advice on how, on how to do that, but I'm so excited to share this with everyone, and I wish you all the best in the new role and the book. And let's not wait, and let's not wait another eight years, please,
Pat Wadors 44:19
John, let's make it at least an annual for something.
Chris Rainey 44:23
Thanks a lot. Pat, appreciate you.
Pat Wadors 44:25
Thank you. Have a wonderful day. Thanks.
More from the HR Leaders Podcast
Casey Bailey, Head of People at Deel.