How People Analytics Can Transform or Destroy Your Workplace
Bradford Williams, Head of People Analytics at Northwestern Mutual, delves into his career journey and the transformative world of people analytics. He explores the pivotal role of managers in shaping culture, the impact of technology on HR, and the significance of strong organizational networks. Brad also sheds light on the evolving landscape of people analytics and its potential to enhance business outcomes.
In today's episode of the HR Leaders Podcast, Bradford Williams, Head of People Analytics, Insights & Workforce Planning at Northwestern Mutual, shares his unique career journey and insights into the dynamic world of people analytics.
He discusses the critical role of managers in shaping organizational culture, the impact of technology on HR processes, and the importance of building strong networks within organizations. Brad also highlights the evolving landscape of people analytics and its potential to drive better business outcomes.
🎓 In this episode, Brad discusses:
How managers influence organizational performance and culture
The future of work and the role of technology in democratizing data
The power of network analysis in understanding organizational dynamics
Strategies for leveraging people analytics to enhance HR decision-making
DISCOVER WHAT EMOTIONAL SALARY MEANS – AND HOW YOU CAN MOTIVATE EMPLOYEES BEYOND PAY.
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The Achievers Workforce Institute reveals that two-thirds of employees have one foot out the door in 2024. The top reason for job hunting? Better compensation. But money isn’t the whole story. Employees are seeking not only monetary salary, but emotional salary too.
Brad Williams 0:00
are managers, talent importers? Or exporters? Are they bringing in folks from other teams and growing them and exporting them off to other teams? are managers growing their teams and kind of promoting internally within their vertical? What does that dynamic look like and trying to understand conclusions you can make based on that you need both importers and exporters within your organisation. It's kind of a balance that is necessary to have but understanding that dynamic and how well managers are working not just vertically within their silo, but horizontally to connect talent with opportunities that might they might have available, but also opportunities outside of their team as well.
Chris Rainey 0:49
Brad, welcome to the show. How are you my friend?
Brad Williams 0:51
Good, you're great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Chris Rainey 0:54
Whenever I see you, I feel like I need to stop reading more.
Brad Williams 1:00
Some of it is a bit of a facade. I don't read nearly as much as I would like to or as I used to, but I try to chip away at my library behind me. Nice,
Chris Rainey 1:09
nice when I look at it now because we were just talking about CO pilots before we went live, I'm like, Hey, I could just ingest all of that in some way COBOL and just ask questions.
Brad Williams 1:23
distil it down to a couple of key points.
Chris Rainey 1:26
Yeah, are you Are you a big reader or poker like ebook? I like audiobooks, sorry.
Brad Williams 1:31
So I don't do audiobooks. For whatever reason, I haven't been able to get into audiobooks. I like physical books, being able to turn pages read so that the library behind me, I do podcasts, but again, that that intermediary of audiobooks, hasn't I haven't been able to stick with for whatever reason. It's
Chris Rainey 1:53
so weird, because like, for years, I struggled to I didn't learn how to read until I was like 13, which was crazy, like so like, and everyone's like, Hey, Chris has got all these have learning difficulties, etc. But the moment I discovered discovered audio and video, I can consume and retain all of that information. Whereas when I'm reading a book, I just can't retain it for some reason. And and obviously, I learned there's, you know, people learn in different ways, and they consume content. And that was a game changer for me. I was like, oh my god, I can't because I couldn't listen to an audio book and actually met remember most of it. Whereas you want to sing with books? Right? That's well,
Brad Williams 2:33
yeah. For for books. For me. It is I have similar challenges with you. Retention, what is helpful for me? In all of my books, you'll see underlining writing and margins and
Chris Rainey 2:47
component of it. Yeah, nice. Yeah. I love when I meet people or like, I go to people's houses, and I see their bookshelf, and it's just full of highlighter. Highlight. Yes. Inside every book is a highlighter. In yellow as I love that, you could learn a lot about people from from, from the books, actually just in general, if you go through that, but how have you been anyway? How's the family? How's everything? Good.
Brad Williams 3:11
We've got two little ones they are they are keeping my wife and I very busy. Work is also keeping myself busy. But all in all good. Good. We're
Chris Rainey 3:21
still smiling. So that's, that's a that's a good thing. Tell us a little bit about your background. Because you didn't you had an unconventional path to where we are today. I think it'd be cool to start there and really talk about how that's also influence your career and what you do now. Yeah,
Brad Williams 3:40
so I, like many adolescents, I wasn't entirely sure what I wanted to do as a grown up. So at first kind of my first passion or first thought was to be an architect or some type of engineer. I liked design. I liked some of the mathematical components of it. I went to college undecided, figured, let's explore all the options, took an intro to psych class and fell in love with psychology and understanding people. What makes us similar, what makes us different? Why do people behave differently or the same in different scenarios. And so went to study psychology not entirely knowing what career path I was going to make out of it, and ended up falling in love with IO psych, which led me to HR and there I kind of found the right balance of the people component of HR and psychology with the mathematical component of analytics, or even just the tech component of people analytics as well and found the perfect blend found my sweet spot and made a career out of it so far from there,
Chris Rainey 5:01
it's kind of interesting because the stars almost aligned for you, because this role was probably just coming to age. Yes, at that point. So you kind of found it. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yes.
Brad Williams 5:14
I don't think you know, certainly when I was in high school, I don't think people analytics was a thing. I had never heard of it. HR, analytics, anything of the sort. HR was still very much a compliance, er, payroll type of function, it has evolved drastically ever since. But you're right, the stars kind of aligned and fell into a career path that I couldn't imagine myself doing anything else.
Chris Rainey 5:45
Sometimes it's meant to be, you know, this, this, this job for me was supposed to be a summer job when I was 1720 years later, right? I still have, I still have to explain to my friends and family what I do. But what do you do for a living? So you don't work in HR, but you do HR? Like, yeah, that's what we do. But yes, sometimes I think, like, you're right, when you're that young, it's just kind of no one can be expected to really understand what they want, right? It's kind of you kind of have to taste different things and try different things. And then you kind of figure it out that way. There's no, we've all got hundreds of hundreds of friends that went to uni, who just have jobs that have nothing to do with what they studied?
Brad Williams 6:29
Oh, yes, I would say most of most of my friends. Yeah. 99% of
Chris Rainey 6:34
the people I know that went. So it shows you it's important to take risks to take the opportunity to try different things, and you'll find out what resonates. Yeah, exactly. as well. You've worked in quite a few different capacities, though. I found that point of HR from the recruitment side to sort of business transformation. Do you work to companies like Sears HP, Fannie Mae, etc? What are some of the sort of lessons that you've learned about organisational dynamics? In those different settings?
Brad Williams 7:04
Yeah, I, it's a great question. One of the parallels that I think of is going to different family reunions as as an outsider, if you if you network with folks and attend family reunions, a lot of those families are made up of similar types of personalities, there's a quirky person, there's maybe an intellectual, there's a job, there's, there's a lot of different individuals. But collectively, there's there's themes, and there's a threat of consistency across that family. And I think organisations operate differently, I won't be so extreme to say organisations are, are like families, but I think there's a lot of parallels in the makeup. And there's a lot of individual differences. But there's a collective theme within that organisation. And it's one of those things that has stuck with me of how much culture really penetrates the organisation. And I think it's both a give and take, there's individuals that can shift and, and change the organisational culture, there's a lot of individuals that come into an organisation and self select right back out, because it's not the right fit. It's not what they were looking for, they don't fit in. And so it's, it's kind of this ever evolving organism that again, going back to the psychology is fascinating, both from an individual standpoint, as well as a collective.
Chris Rainey 8:35
Yeah. Never really thought about that before. Like the fact you're right. Like each family has their own culture as well. And I never really, and organisations are just kind of a larger version. Yeah. And yeah, and within organisations, you have those subcultures? Yes, that exists, right? I know, in my previous company, it was like sales at a very different sub sales culture as it were, to the wider business, if that makes sense. Yeah. And there are different dynamics that play different personalities different, you know, and you kind of have to understand how to navigate both. Yep. Lucky do family.
Brad Williams 9:16
Exactly. And there's, there's certainly a maybe much more so in organisations, a hierarchy. But I think those exists to some degree in families as well. But there's an informal hierarchy as well. And there's influencers and at both in organisations that maybe don't hold a special title. But in families, I think there's there's influencers that can kind of navigate different sub teams, as you alluded to that can influence or connect people in ways that you can't otherwise do. Yeah.
Chris Rainey 9:48
It's interesting to talk to someone like yourself, who was leading people and legs and your view on culture from a pupil analytics lens. When you look at culture from the lens, what what what are the some of the considerations and things that you that come to mind?
Brad Williams 10:08
So I think there's, it's a big question, I think one of the things that always fascinates me and maybe it goes back to what we were just talking through is the role that managers play, I think they play such a critical role in shaping the organisation and shaping the culture and, you know, allowing the the maybe the right behaviours, or the wrong behaviours, or the right thoughts penetrate throughout the organisation. So those are really, in my opinion, the stewards of the organisational culture. And so that's one of the things that I'm always interested in understanding from a people analytics standpoint, but even broader from an HR standpoint, how do we identify the right people, leaders that are going to drive not only the right behavioural components, but the right engagement, the right productivity, drive retention, drive performance, all the things that organisations are looking for? To me, a lot of that comes down to selecting the right and best managers to be stewards of the organisational culture that you want? Yeah.
Chris Rainey 11:21
What does that look like? In a practical sense? What are some of the ways that you can you can do that using people makes?
Brad Williams 11:28
Yeah, I think there's, they, maybe this is overly simplified, but I think it's some of those key metrics that organisations look at, but slice down to Team levels or, or different components of it. So if you look at engagement, if you look at attrition, if you look at diversity, if you look at enps, if you just look at experience, I think there's a lot of some of those key metrics that organisations have that can tell how the organisation looks at a granular level, one of the things that I absolutely love, from a metric standpoint, not good nor bad, is our managers, talent importers or exporters, are they bringing in folks from other teams and growing them and exporting them off to other team, our managers growing their teams and kind of promoting internally within their vertical? What is that dynamic look like and trying to understand what conclusions you can make based on that you need both importers and exporters within your organisation, it's kind of a balance that is necessary to have that understanding that dynamic and how well managers are working not just vertically within their silo, but horizontally to connect talent with opportunities that might they might have available, but also opportunities outside of their team as well.
Chris Rainey 12:58
I think that's a great indicator, right? And this is, it's kind of the opposite of what we were taught. You know, early on, right? I know, when I was a manager, I didn't want to let any of my talent go, yeah, right. Because I was, like, especially in sales, right? I had, you know, specifically, these people are generating X revenue, which I get a bonus based on, I now you want me to export this talent into the rest of the business, and I have to go and find some more, right. But it only became sort of later in my career where I realised that that was actually kind of line with my own purpose of helping others grow, develop and succeed. And I kind of received satisfaction for that. But the organisation also has to be structured and set up to make that successful. Because if you're unsatisfied, like I was to not do it, then why am I going to do that? So you also need to sell the systems and the structure and the compensation to reflect that otherwise, you're running into the wind?
Brad Williams 13:54
Yeah. And and reinforce that that mindset too, that this isn't your talent? This is our collective talent, and how do we share? How do we put people in the best opportunities for them grow their career with that, set them up for success? And think about it, not just for me personally, as a manager, but for us as an organisation? What does success look like and set up again, to to your to your point, the the mechanisms, the enablers to be able to do that, but also enforce the right mindset for managers to have
Chris Rainey 14:32
Yeah, and have it literally, you know, one of the indicators of how they're measured during their review, right, and I know some complex some, a lot of companies now are linking that back to the compensation. It's becoming very real. I was wondering, like, obviously, this. I think we could all agree that the pace of change is just exponential. Right now when thinking about technology, I don't think there's ever been a time I can think of things are just changing so quickly. How's your approach to people and they exchanged over the years, especially with all of these new advancements in technology?
Brad Williams 15:13
Yeah, I. So I agree with you, I every single day, I try to read something about new technology or something that I don't know. Even with that I feel light years behind, from a knowledge standpoint of everything that's going on. So it feels like an impossible task to keep up with everything that doesn't stop me, nor should it stop anybody from trying to catch up to everything. But to your question, I think the biggest thing from my vantage point is just the you talked about it in the question, the pace of change and trying to keep up and adapt new technology, but also figuring out what is worth sticking and, and what's not just going to be a fad of what's actually going to work for your organisation and being thoughtful not to jump on to the flavour of the day, flavour of the week, but being really thoughtful in your tech stack, what's going to work, but also, I think, as I think about technology, changing what has shifted the most, is really just the, the scale and impact that you can have across the organisation from a people analytics standpoint. You know, 10 years ago, or even five years ago, a lot of it was confined to this small group of individuals within a team or maybe fractions of people's jobs, that would consult on the data, lend insights and tell people across the organisation was that was what was going on. There was no scale to it. Now, with technology, you can actually have scale, you can democratise some of the data, some of the insights, give people information to make better decisions, you're not relying on this niche group of data scientists to tell you, you should be paying attention to Yes, exactly. So I think I think the scale, the impact is what has changed the most, who knows, you know, five or 10 years from now what that's going to look like, I think there's always going to be a place for people analytics and the consulting arm of it. But I think more and more you're you're able to arm decision makers with information a whole lot quicker without an intermediary, holding their hand along the way. Yeah.
Chris Rainey 17:39
along that journey. How long have you been indispensable now?
Brad Williams 17:44
So I've been with Northwestern Mutual. For years, I've probably been in HR technology analytics for 15 years now.
Chris Rainey 17:56
I'm ageing, you know, sorry. I've been doing this 20 years that like, crazy. I asked you that because I was wondering like, what are some of the unexpected variables that you've kind of discovered on that, on that journey that maybe surprised you? That you thought well, I didn't expect that interesting? Yeah.
Brad Williams 18:16
I think there's you know, I struggling answering this question, because in hindsight, a lot of things don't seem unexpected. I think you can, you can make sense of a lot of things that jump out to you going back to some of the earlier conversation that we had, and, you know, hopefully I'm not harping on it too much. I think managers have such an outsized impact in the organisation as it relates to performance retention engagement of their team. You can look at things like PE you can look at things like, you know, do you have a hybrid work model? Are you fully remote, you can look at a whole host of other factors. I think the manager influence and the role that leaders have in an organisation probably outpaces everything. So I don't know that that's, to your question. unexpected or surprising? I think, for me, the learning that I've had over the 15 years is maybe the size of the impact and the significance of it that managers have within an organisation.
Chris Rainey 19:40
I think everyone agrees with you, we offer we understood the importance but not to the to the scale that we understand now. Because we have the data right. But back then we didn't we kinda was like, Yeah, of course. This is important, right? You know, this is the person that you're those Start reports spend the most of their day we have, right so their lives are going to be impacted by. But by that, of course, but we I don't think I agree with you, I didn't think we truly, I would have said to the scale that we understand now, as well.
Brad Williams 20:16
And I think the other thing that maybe runs off of that, too, is just the network that individuals have. I think the more ingrained people are into the organisation, meaning, you know, how many close friends do they have? Or how many people that can they go and grab coffee with or grab a drink with after work and just talk about their day or talk about their personal life? What does that network look like? I think that influences performance, culture retention, because the bigger that network is, the more close allies you have a an organisation, I think, you're going to maximise people's investment in what they want to give to that organisation. Because they see it not just as an organisation, they see it as the collection of people that are there. And so I think that really influences things, which is one of the things that a lot of organisations struggled with during the pandemic is some of those networks, people were joining organisations that were fully remote trying to establish new networks that were challenging. And we found a lot of ways to work through that. But the sudden shift made that very challenging. And I think that's the I think there's a lot of reasons why we saw the great resignation happened. But I think that was one is a kind of weakened some of the ties that people have to their organisation and the network that was there.
Chris Rainey 21:47
Yeah, the kind of the network is kind of like the glue that holds it all together. And you just didn't have that when people were being on boarded by the 1000s. Virtually, and they only see one person, the only interaction they have with the entire company is their manager. Yeah, that's it. That's all I have, right. And when when I used to get I was at my last company for 10 years, and people, I would get recruiters trying to hit my head, hunt me every year and call me. And when I looked back of like, Why did I stay it was because of all of those relationships that I've had throughout the entire company, right? Not even just my own team. And I was like, I enjoyed it, right. And I had always picnic, I stayed more for those than my own personal development in a weird way. And when I did leave that, and I had a year gap before I started HR leaders, I went to another company. And I realised just how important that was because all of a sudden, I felt like I just landed on a desert island. And in order for me to make change, I had to start that all over again, in terms of building new relationships, building the trust again, getting to understand the business another Oh, wow. Okay, I'm back here again. And in order for me to make meaningful change, it's probably gonna take me a year just to even establish relationships, trust, credibility, and build build my own network. And I'll say, Okay, there's a bit of a big eye opener. Yeah, it's not it's not always just about the pay increase, or the new job title. It's actually those other factors that are most important. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah,
Brad Williams 23:19
I've changed jobs four or five times or change organisations four or five times and have had the exact same experience, the hardest part is leaving that network. A lot of them you can stay connected to which I always advise people to, you know, keep your network close. But that is also the compelling reason for me to stay at organisations. And it's always one of those experiences that I forget, in the first six months of a new role. how hard that is to not have those strong networks and connections and have to build them from the bottom up again. Yeah,
Chris Rainey 23:58
yeah, it's tough. Like I see it, whenever a CH er, joins a new company, and I interview them. They're like, Hey, Chris, I spent the first year just building the trust relationships and understanding, truly understanding the business before making any type of meaningful change. Because if you try and come in, and all of a sudden want to shake things up, it's gonna go very wrong. I think everyone's experienced that one before. Could you share some specific examples of how you're using technology and automation at Northwestern Mutual, and some of the particular things you're doing?
Brad Williams 24:33
Yeah, so we're similar to a lot of companies in the midst of a multi year journey here in understanding not just our current landscape, but all the potential that exists out there. And, you know, we're certainly not starting today or yesterday. This has been, you know, kind of in the background and then works in progress for a while but I think, you know, the big as opportunities for us and where we're hoping to make the biggest drive is really? How do we operate more efficiently as an HR organisation? How do we make it easier for the population outside of HR at Northwestern Mutual to engage with us to get answers that they need to understand policy questions or get resources that they need from us in a much more natural way, which allows HR to spend our time on higher value work on greater impact, and some of the more transactional tactical, mundane things can be automated through technology. So I think that's one of the big shifts that we're, we're leaning into the other one near and dear to my heart. And I alluded to it earlier is, you know, I always cringe a little bit when I say data, democratisation, because I think it's a an overused term, but I think a lot of it is is how do we give data insights, analytics to decision makers outside of HR and give them the autonomy and empowerment to make decisions that they need to in regards to their talent, and understanding what their future needs are giving them the right tools and insights to be able to do that. And again, a lot of that requires not just spinning up a dashboard and throwing it at people leaders and saying, Here you go, make the most of it, but coaching them through, and there's a big change component of how to use it, what you should be looking for, what actions you might be thinking about as you look at certain trends, and what to do with it, how to monitor progress. And so I think that's the other big opportunity from our lens within HR of how to really unlock and unleash technology to make us better as an organisation.
Chris Rainey 27:04
Yeah, no, I love that. I feel like we've always been this constant quest to be able to free up the time, like you mentioned, for someone who is mundane. So admin tasks, but also create a bit of a free you up to have to offer more strategic work, right? And that that can actually mean also mean freeing, you want to have meaningful conversations, yes, to, which is the human part that we're not trying to replace with the technology, actually, that frees us up to actually to be more human, and have more vote. So it's a bit of a misconception sometimes, on that side. And and as you said, on the other side, we kind of need to give our managers and leaders audit all the help we can, giving the data that they need to specific to them, as well. Right? Not just his, his, his orders. And that's that's a challenge. But again, with technology, we can now do that at scale. And, Chris, here's an overview of your own team. Exactly, for example, what it looks like that that's those are two super important things that you said they're going to help both the employees but the organisation win, as well. And they both go hand in hand. What does that look like in today's world where you are, in terms of if we talk specifically about the dashboards and getting the data in front of those leaders? And where are you aiming towards in the future?
Brad Williams 28:29
Yeah. So I would say, you know, if I if I were to ballpark this, we're probably 20% of the way there maybe even 15%. So how
Chris Rainey 28:40
now then, specifically, how are you doing that now and getting so a lot of
Brad Williams 28:44
the delivery mechanism is we're a workday shop, a lot of the delivery mechanism, mechanism is through workday, the you know, the two challenges that we have within my world of people analytics. People outside of HR don't have enough data, people inside of HR have too much data. And so part of it is within HR, how do we distil it down into what's meaningful? What's impactful? what folks should be looking at? And not just, here's a report, here's, here's a PowerPoint presentation, here's a dashboard and throw stuff at people, but how do we really distil it into what's meaningful? And then outside of HR, I think it's exactly what we talked through how do we deliver data in a way that fits into people's workflow? That doesn't necessarily mean they have to be reminded, what do I search for in order to find this dashboard? Because I'm about to make this decision or I need the data for XYZ reason. How do we make it a little bit more natural? I think there's a long ways to go there, which is, again, why we're probably a fifth of the way there on our journey, but I think you know, There's not just a single prong approach. So workday is kind of our delivery shop right now, what that looks like probably evolves in the next couple of years in terms of really arming people with the right information at the right time in a natural way of their of the way that they work so that they can make better decisions.
Chris Rainey 30:22
Yeah, we're seeing that with a lot of solutions. Now, the ones that are really doing a great job are arming leaders with that data in the flow of work, to your point, right, so it shows up in the flow of work, like, you shouldn't have to go off in a different direction, to have to go and find that you've already lost actually, at that point, if I have to go and search for an intranet. I go and find it, you're already you've already lost me, as well. And you look at what we kind of receiving now from a consumer grade experience, it is not a technology thing, the technology already is is there, this is more of a cultural transformational shift than a does the technology exists. Because we've been doing this for years with our customers and consumers right to be able to do that, as well. So I think that's the part that people, they feel like, Hey, I'm just gonna get this new, shiny new toy, and it's gonna solve everything. Unfortunately, that's not as you just said, right? You got you, we've got our technology, we may make some changes, but we're going through this journey. And it's gonna, you know, we're just at the beginning. Yeah.
Brad Williams 31:28
And I think going back to the earlier question of, you know, the advancements in technology, I think that is one of the big shifts is not just enabling that to happen, but the the experience that comes with it, I think that's what has really shifted over the last couple of years is how do you really make that experience feels natural and seamless for people within an organisation? So that data is part of their workflow and not a separate activity? I think that experience is is big, and a huge shift that's been underway for the last couple
Chris Rainey 32:03
of years was interesting, right? Because you mentioned automating the questions you're getting asked, as an HR team, from the employee population, we know we can solve that now with things like copilots, like launching an agent to be able to do that. And I think quite a lot of people were quite familiar with that interface and experience already, for things like Jaci booty and Bard and other things as well. So it is people catching up pretty quickly, like the entry is low. Yeah, yeah, I don't think is as far away a congregate as possible was more like we discussed this before we went, we hit record, like more of the internal shift. And the business being more comfortable with it, the obviously security element, we have to be careful, we have to be careful about people's data, we have to have some level of oversight, you know, all of those things need to be put in place that just didn't even exist. Even legislation is having to be put in place in real time, as this evolves so quickly, because of the pace is moving so fast that our legislature has always been behind as always, as well. Right. So like, and it's interesting how, I'm not sure if you're seeing this, but I'm seeing that HR is actually becoming in many companies to custodian of AI. In lead in leading the way I'm like, wow. Didn't didn't expect that. Yeah,
Brad Williams 33:34
yeah. No, it is I like I said, I think it's fascinating how AI has really evolved. And I know it's become more and more common terminology to use AI AI has been around for a while, but chat GPT has really changed the way that people think or leverage AI and I think organisations are really, at least the leading the organisations are really seizing the opportunity there and trying to lead with innovation to figure out all the different use cases across the organisation, whether it's from a tax standpoint, or whether trauma people standpoint or any other lens. Yeah.
Chris Rainey 34:15
Well, if he's to do want to talk about before we wrap up is is a lot of this. And a myriad of the things that we've been talking about. This also does lead to burnout that we're seeing from there. So this is always on, like your technology now. It's like we're always on right? There's always a Slack message on LinkedIn message, a team's message and email and it's like, people are just becoming overwhelmed, right? There's always so there's like this kind of like the pros and cons of technology. So wanted to hear your thoughts on that in terms of what are you seeing, but also, what some of your ideas. Do you think of how we can address that because I think it's it's something just becoming more and more of a challenge.
Brad Williams 34:58
Yeah, I I think flexibility is is key. I think recognising that. Yeah. Forget the old adage. But recognising that there's a problem is the first step in solving that problem. So I think recognising that this is how organisations operate, and there's I don't know that that in and of itself is going to change. So how do we shift our behaviours and our mindsets to find the right balance for employees on maintaining that work life balance? And so I, again, not to harp too much on it. But I think a lot of this comes down to individual manager employee conversations, what's the right balance? What are the right expectations for those pairings and managing work? And, you know, for me, personally, I, by and large work from my home office here, I think a lot of organisations have, most organisations probably have employees that work entirely from home that have hybrid that are entirely on site. And so creating kind of tailored flexibility for different types of employees that all have different experiences, that all have different commitments at home, is kind of the foundation of everything, flexibility looks a little bit different for each organisation. For me, I tell my team, that's one of the silly works that I have slack messages. Pet peeve, if any of my peers are listening that aren't aware, the slack messages that go boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, 18 different thoughts, all in a separate line that just ping you all at once. I've told my team like, for me mentally, it's a whole lot better to just crunch all your thoughts into a single Slack message, send it at once, wait for a reply. Unless it's urgent. You know, I don't need 15 Different slack messages to come across and, you know, flash on the screen and hit me at one. So I think I use that as an example. I think there's a lot of little things that can go a long way in just letting your network whether it's your manager, your peers know what your working style is, and have that conversation. And I think it's especially important to calibrate with your manager, what is flexibility mean for you? What are their expectations, that they have a view and making sure that you're constantly aligned so that if you need to step away from your computer and go for a walk for 30 minutes to just disconnect? They're not hitting you up and saying, Where are you i need this done, I like Why aren't you at your desk, you've got the right level of flexibility, the right expectation, and it's not a one size fits all that you can kind of establish a HR policy around, here's what flexibility means. A lot of it is individualised for specific employees. Thanks,
Chris Rainey 38:15
Sharon, nothing is it's really important because, you know, when we worked in an office environment, there was a level of this is the same for everyone. We go to lunch the same time. We do meetings this way. You know, it was kind of like, here's the format of how but as soon as we went remote, all of a sudden, there's, you know, just people who have kids at home, just people looking after elderly parents, there's people that just have different schedules, or in your point, just the way in which you want to consume content is good. Like, I am also the same as you, by the way with the messages because my team will be like, What do you mean, I send it to you and Google Chat. I'm like, but which chat, we've got seven chats like, you know, like, sometimes it's really important stuff. And I'm like, I've just, I've missed it. Right? So I'm with you on that. Just send it one thing to me as well. But what I took away from what you said is just we have to sit down and just be very intentional about creating because that just won't happen on its own. Yeah. And and also so I think it's on ourselves, our responsibility personally, to communicate that. Obviously, as managers, we can promote that and obviously, you know, help help, but I think we need to be and I've certainly not been great at doing this and my, my sister Lisa is actually sitting across from me right now and she will tell you, I'm the I'm the the worst culprit of actually how to do that. But we've kind of got there over time of what works best for me, but it's different for everyone. And then I can only imagine how complicated that becomes when you do that at scale in an organisation like yours as well. Listen before I let you go I I wanted to ask you a couple of questions. Quick kind of like quickfire questions? Yeah. First one is like, what was some of the things that you're seeing out there in the marketplace that kind of no one's really talking about, but they really should be speaking more about.
Brad Williams 40:16
Oh, nobody's talking about AI? That's a great question. The ones that come to mind are the ones that everybody's talking about how to use AI, to shift skills, how to keep an engaged, productive workforce, I think one of the ones that maybe is still talked about, but less so is, I think, the power of organisational network analysis and understanding these informal networks or how the organisation really operates. has, again, I would hesitate to say, nobody's talking about it, there's a lot of work being done there. And it's, you know, has been underway for a while now. But it feels like that has taken a backseat to all things engagement and skills and AI. And I really believe in the power of understanding how your network and how your organisation really operates by leveraging Oh, Na,
Chris Rainey 41:15
you're right. Like a few years ago, it was like a topic of conversation that everyone was talking about. And it directly impacts everything else we just spoke about. Yeah. So I, you definitely answered that. Great, great that no one's read, we should be talking more about that. I'm glad you it's hard to write when you've got 1000, new things that are being thrown at you every day, right, and you're being pulled in different directions. The other thing is, is looking back on your experience, kind of what do you wish that you had known when you got started that you know now?
Brad Williams 41:47
I would say? Again, harping on maybe a theme here, I think the power of your network, one of the things that I was told early in my career network network network network, as a bit of an introvert, I, you know, maybe I'm a fine balance of introversion and extraversion that scared me that having to connect with people that were outside of my network and keep ties with them felt scary. I think there's such power in leveraging those relationships, being somebody that's easy to work with. And and just enjoyable is extremely powerful in your career. It doesn't need to be scary. It doesn't mean you need to go up to strangers and have 30 minute dialogues with them. But really maintaining your network keeping up you know, board of advisors, personal board of advisors in your Rolodex is the thing that I was told early on I under appreciated now looking back I I've leveraged my network for I think every single job except my first one
Chris Rainey 42:55
is and there's so many things that right, because when I the first thing, our first reaction is we don't have time. Yeah, right, right. And then all like, as you said, you're kind of just avoiding it. But then you realise, oh, I don't have time not to network. And now you kind of like you mentioned, you see the fact that you've your last three roles have come from that network, or we're talking right now being you Yeah, right now because you know, I reached out to you reply to and we're here we are. We've known each other for quite a few years now, as well. And I will say to anyone listening right now, don't be afraid if you're going to send someone a message, for example, on LinkedIn to reach out and they don't reply. Don't let that stop you. Because I think that's kind of one of the reasons people like this fear of rejection that if I like, try and reach out to someone for a chat, and they don't reply, I don't know who cares about that. And you will be surprised the amount of people that actually do reply to you, so just want to throw it out there as well. Like, I'll share a very quick story. And I remember I remember when I was like 18 I messaged Michael Dell, from Dell computers on LinkedIn DM, and he replied, as Chris happy to connect you with ch Ro And I was like, I remember saying to Shane, I was like this guy at the time was like, net wealth was like 40 billion. I default that my navigation popped up on his phone. And he replied to me just made me laugh. Right? Yeah, like because how many people actually messaged him? Probably not a lot, because we were like, he's not gonna reply to as a silly story, but it was one of those eye opening moments for me that like, wow, I'm like, once one message removed from anyone in the world. Yeah, yeah. That's crazy for
Brad Williams 44:44
Yeah, I think it's 100% true and and to your point, like, try it and then you might not get a response. I try to be responsive to any message that I get oftentimes messages catch me Wrong time wrong place, or I forget, I read it and think I'll respond later. That's I don't think anybody looks at these messages and says, you know, the audacity that somebody would reach out and want to connect with me on LinkedIn, how terrible of them. So I absolutely agree with you give it a shot. Connect with people network. You never know where that's gonna lead.
Chris Rainey 45:22
I don't know, you give one caveat. Don't let you go to all of you vendors. That doesn't mean you can also message and Brad
leading the value lead. All right. I always kind of walk into any of those whenever I'm messaging someone for the lens of what value can I add? And I think if you operate from that place, then you're gonna have a much better experience. Thanks so much for coming on the show. I appreciate you. And I wish you all the best until next week. Thanks so much. Yeah.
Brad Williams 45:53
My pleasure. Thanks for having me. See ya. Bye bye.
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